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Western media propaganda is shit.
The fact that there are multiple people in here believing both because “they were 3 years apart,” I don’t know whether that’s funny or sad.
I know I said gullible was written on the ceiling but that was a second before you looked up, now it’s written on the floor. Nope, you missed it again, back to the ceiling.
This is where you really gotta turn to that redsails article to explain how these people’s minds work:
In short: Westerners aren’t helpless innocents whose minds are injected with atrocity propaganda, science fiction-style; they’re generally smug bourgeois proletarians who intelligently seek out as much racist propaganda as they can get their hands on. This is because it fundamentally makes them feel better about who they are and how they live. The psychic and material costs are rationally worth the benefits.
Western propaganda is better understood in terms of “licensing”: the issuing of moral license for the bourgeois proletariat to profitably go along with bourgeois designs without the feeling of shame overwhelming. In this alternative account people aren’t “brainwashed” insofar as they don’t actually believe the lies, not in the way that we generally understand belief. It’s more correct to say that they go along with them
“But you don’t understand, the news man said I have permission to use this to make fun of North Korea. Why are you spoilsports trying to take away my fun?”
Critical thinking doesn’t enter into it at all.
So what’s a “westerner” who thinks both sides are different flavours of bullshit? Also, what’s a “westerner”? Also also, “bourgeois proletariat”? How does a non capital owning worker who owns capital exist? Is that just propaganda against wage workers who happened to be born in a specific location?
“But you don’t understand, the news man said I have permission to use this to make fun of North Korea. Why are you spoilsports trying to take away my fun?”
Critical thinking doesn’t enter into it at all.
All cool though when you use the same tactic to “other” people who don’t have the same “enlightened upbringing” as you though right?
It’s not like you couldn’t have made a comment on the publicly known biases of the sources in question - NYP is a far-right (from a US American perspective) editorial-mill, and the BBC is at best center-left, while still toeing the McCarthy line against second-world states. Neither is a credible source on haircuts in North Korea.
I feel like all your objections are just about the terminology used in an article I didn’t write. I wouldn’t use the term “bourgeois proletariat” for example, but the actual point that the article is making is correct and insightful.
It’s not like you couldn’t have made a comment on the publicly known biases of the sources in question
Neither is a credible source on haircuts in North Korea.
Yeah, no shit, that’s the point.
There’s people in here blindly believing this propaganda even when it comes from such a biased and unreliable source as the NYP. That’s not because of a failure of critical thinking or because they’re just “stupid” or something, it’s because they simply choose not to engage in critical thinking at all. Because, as I said, they don’t actually care whether it’s true or not, they just enjoy getting a chance to shit on the DPRK to feel better about their own lives and their own system.
You can’t convince people based off facts and evidence if they’re basing their beliefs off of things completely unrelated to facts and evidence. Tell them the NYP is unreliable and they’ll probably just attack you for “defending North Korea” or they’ll demand you prove a negative (and not bother to read if you actually put in the effort). They simply want to believe the propaganda.
I don’t see why you’re so offended by this idea.
You deferred to authority with your reference to a blog that defines classes of people as “westerners” and “proletariat bourgeoisie”. Those definitions are then used throughout the article as though they are commonly known entities, and even further entities that should be considered a lesser class. Regardless of the article you linked, the quotes that you selected use the terminology I am questioning.
So I am asking to define what those classes are, and which people are bound to that definition? I own my house, but not my means of production; does that make me a “proletariat bourgeoisie” or just a modern peasant? What if someone owns a small business but rents an apartment?
You deferred to authority with your reference to a blog
Jesus Christ, any time I cite any sort of theory about anything people immediately jump down my throat with this “appeal to authority” bullshit.
I referenced the blog not because it has any sort of “authority” but because it explains the concept quite well.
I’m sorry that, apparently unlike you, I’m capable of respecting insight regardless of whether it’s written in the most proper, ideologically correct phrasing.
So I am asking to define what those classes are, and which people are bound to that definition?
No. Message the author if you want a definition. I already told you I wouldn’t use the term personally.
The overall point is quite clear regardless of that terminology. And you haven’t said a single thing to contest that point, you’re just whining about phrasing for no apparent reason.
No. Message the author if you want a definition
No, I’m asking you for your definition. Who are you punching down on? If you don’t know, then you are assuming their definitions.
What they mean is the proletariat of exploitative countries, those in the imperial core, who they see as having a distinct class character from the proletariat of exploited countries.
Does that satisfy your pointless pedantry? Of course not. Now you’ll find another pointless detail to quibble over, or you’ll nitpick my definition. Because the point being made seems to have struck a nerve with you, but you can’t actually find anything to counter it so you focus on this nonsense.
If the shoe fits, wear it. I’m guessing you know it’s true, at least on some level, and that’s why you’re doing this.
Does that satisfy your pointless pedantry? Of course not.
Of course not, because you haven’t answered my question. What’s a Westerner? What’s a Bourgeoisie Proletariat?
Now this is how you JAQ off, a real GOANer (going over all nitpicks) lol. Can’t attack the heart of the argument in the post linked so you resort to this shit
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Liberals: two things can be true at the same time
Are they approaching Dialectical Materialism?
i doubt that they ever will
The first one refers to men. It can be inferred that the second one refers to women.
“One of us copied me.”
I will never understand why left leaning people feel the need to defend a state which is essentially a heridetary monarchy disguised AS communist … ?
I feel the need to “defend” every single state that has ever existed. Because I’m operating on a different paradigm than you.
I care about whether claims made are true or false. “Defending” doesn’t enter into the equation for me. If you say Hitler was an evil space alien, I will push back on that, simply because it’s not true, with absolutely zero regard for whether by refuting misinformation, I’m “defending Hitler.”
Liberals seem to operate differently. They see things in terms of good countries and bad countries (and people), and they see everything in those terms. So, if a claim is complete bullshit, but it makes a “bad country” look bad, then you should accept it, or at least let it stand. And if someone tries to refute misinformation about a “bad country,” the only way they can understand that behavior is if the person saying it thinks the “bad country” is actually “good.”
To me, that’s just intellectual dishonesty. You don’t just make shit up about whoever you don’t like, and I don’t see how anyone who sees things that way could ever be trustworthy.
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So you truly believe that the dprk is in fact democratic ?
Oh and btw. Just cause a country has elections doesnt mean it isnt a monarchyAnd yes the Kim family only receives a wage … They arnt different from regular people - they just habe certain priviliges that noone else has - linke Sendung your children to private schools in switzerland - totally the same as a ricefarmer
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“I don’t understand why you don’t unquestioningly accept falsehoods! Don’t you understand that they’re against the Bad Guys?”
So … What would you discribe the country AS ? A country with an extremly poor pollpulace (which used to be Richer than south Korea btw) in which one family always gets to decide who is in power ?
A country which errects walls arround itself to keep people in ?
I dont habe to rely in reports of all the human rights violations - just the fact that apparently i. A country of millions only one family gets to rule says a lot
“I don’t understand why you don’t unquestioningly accept falsehoods! Don’t you understand that they’re against the Bad Guys?”
