No, my comment is not confusing correlation with causation. You never explained this point, you just stated it as though it counters all of the hard evidence I brought supporting how well socialism works and how poorly capitalism has done in its place. Further, I never said prostitution did not exist in the Soviet Union, I said it skyrocketed after socialism was dissolved, which is uncontestably true.
As for Marx and numbers not adding up, he made minor mistakes here and there. Engels and other Marxists have corrected the figures and they do not change the points Marx made, nor do they disprove Marxist economics. That’s like suggesting that if a scientist makes a mistake in calculating gravity, that the law of gravity is wrong.
It’s also telling that, again, you never give examples, and entirely ignore the part where Marx debunked Henry George. You’re incapable of actually countering anything I say, so instead you make a thesis statement and confuse that for an argument itself. You aren’t going to convince any onlookers that way, and you sure as hell aren’t going to convince me, so why even try?
As for Putin being an enemy of the working classes, this is partially true. He is, after all, a nationalist leader and a billionaire. However, nationalist Russia still plays an internationally progressive role in undermining imperialism, which is positive.
Your latter comment is just racism, assuming hordes of Asians are going to conquest Russian land if Russia cannot defend itself from China and India. This was already true a decade ago, and yet no Chinese invasion of Russia seems plausible.
No, my comment is not confusing correlation with causation. You never explained this point, you just stated it as though it counters all of the hard evidence I brought supporting how well socialism works and how poorly capitalism has done in its place.
I didn’t explain my point because I do not have the time to go through every single bullshit point you made, that would just be a waste of time. I’ll pick one but this point could be made of every example you gave. You used the increase in life expectancy in the USSR as one reason why communism is superior to capitalism.
You fail to mention that life expectancy in the capitalist west increased to even greater figures or explain why USSR life expectancy tailed off in the 50’s only to rise after communism.
Prostitution, which is fine by me, oldest profession in the world and all that, where did all of the demand come from following the collapse of the USSR? Did capitalism corrupt the people’s minds or was the soviet government lying?
That’s like suggesting that if a scientist makes a mistake in calculating gravity, that the law of gravity is wrong
No it’s not and you have revealed the fatal flaw all of your crowd exhibits. You view economics as a hard science like physics, where there are universal immutable constants. Economics is a soft science where things are constantly changing depending on multiple factors. Marx did not “discover” the universal secrets of economics in the way Newton or Einstein did. Where in that article you send does Marx debunk George? It just reads like intellectual snobbery by a myopic man unable to see beyond his own work and defending his own views. You sit in an echo chamber of confirmation bias.
Marx’s ideas don’t work or add up, they are from another time, same as George for that matter. Their ideas do not work for modern globalised economies. If they did surely we would have seen the proletariat rise up and seize the mean of production. I am sure this is coming any day now buddy.
However, nationalist Russia still plays an internationally progressive role in undermining imperialism, which is positive.
WTF? Hilarious statement! RUSSIA IS AN EMPIRE! All of the empires try and undermine each other as they always have. You are displaying the third worldism tankies have adopted since the proletariat never rose up, now relying on rebel groups in developing countries to carry on the revolution.
This was already true a decade ago, and yet no Chinese invasion of Russia seems plausible.
No invasion necessary here, Putin is so deep in Xi’s pocket at this stage he is playing with his balls! Russia is so overdependent on China and China alone that they are now just a vassal state of China. No matter the outcome of the war this will be true. China will reclaim their lost territories without blood and secure the water their large population requires.
Not a single one of my points was bullshit. Life expectancy increasing in the imperialist west was largely due to said imperialism, plundering the global south of resources and labor power while exporting contradictions and violence. Life expectancy increased in the imperialist west off the backs of the global south, life expectancy increased in socialist countries due to pro-social policies and industrial development.
As for prostitution, it skyrocketed because poverty skyrocketed. Women’s employment was dramatically harmed, and many were forced to sell their bodies or else end up homeless and on the streets. Regardless of your view of sex work, certainly you can see that being forced into it by a lack of social safety nets is akin to socially compelled sex slavery.
As for Marxism being correct, Marx’s major predictions are all coming to pass. The fact that we do not instantly live in global communism does not contradict Marx in any way. Capitalism has continued to centralize, and imperialism has grown, causing revolutions around the world. The imperialist west is now collapsing under its own weight, and socialist countries like China are rapidly rising. Marxism has carried forward into new conditions by Marxists since Marx, such as Lenin, Rodney, Cheng Enfu, and more.
You have not explained how Marx “does not add up.” Georgism was debunked long ago as having an incomplete and insufficient view of political economy, overly focusing on land while ignoring the contradictions within capitalism itself necessarily leading towards a collapse in capitalism. No amount of land value tax can prevent the tendency for the rate of profit to fall.
As for Russia being an “empire,” it is not. It is governed by nationalists and a national bourgeoisie that is largely industrial in character. Russia has a pitiful amount of finance capital, and does not base its economy on capital export but instead commodity export, like oil and natural gas. A country cannot be imperialist if it isn’t imperializing.
As for Russia being a vassal of China, it is not. It is certainly weaker than China, but the two are strong allies. This is certainly unthinkable for a westerner, but it turns out having shared interests and not being dominated by finance capital means countries can genuinely ally.
Life expectancy increased in the imperialist west off the backs of the global south, life expectancy increased in socialist countries due to pro-social policies and industrial development.
Now we are back to confusing correlation with causation. Life expectancy increased dramatically across the 20th century as a result of improved sanitation, medical breakthroughs like antibiotics and vaccines and better obstetric care for childbirth. You are also hilariously forgetting that the USSR was an empire with the European states being kept in line often brutally by their Russian overlords. Did Russian imperialism increase Russian life expectancy then? You should at least be intellectually consistent.
As for prostitution, it skyrocketed because poverty skyrocketed
And this was the fault of the imperial west how? The USSR collapsed due to its own bad governance.
The imperialist west is now collapsing under its own weight
Wake me up when this happens babe.
socialist countries like China are rapidly rising
Most economists would describe today’s China as hybrid state capitalism. China’s communist days are long behind them, I noticed how even you referred to them as “socialist” which would be a stretch considering the oppressive conditions most live under.
You have not explained how Marx “does not add up.”
There are plenty of information online debunking Marx’s theories, I do not have time to do what you can search yourself. I also know that you will be like the proverbial horse brought to water. You mentioned earlier that capitalism in the imperial west is now collapsing under its own weight, as Marx predicted. Marx predicted that capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction, leading to the inevitable collapse of the system, falling rates of profit, and widespread immiseration of the working class. In reality, capitalist economies proved adaptable, driving technological innovation, creating modern welfare systems to regulate markets, and lifting billions out of poverty globally over the last century.
Or more importantly, why has the proletariat not risen up yet? I mean they’ve had almost 2 centuries at this point!
As for Russia being an “empire,” it is not.
Do you know nothing of Russian history? Read a book dude! How did the Russian state expand over the centuries, magic?
A country cannot be imperialist if it isn’t imperializing.
You say this with a straight face when they are invading Ukraine in an imperialist land grab. This is just after Russia stole a slice of Georgia. I don’t think you understand the meaning of words buddy.
but the two are strong allies. This is certainly unthinkable for a westerner, but it turns out having shared interests and not being dominated by finance capital means countries can genuinely ally.
Back to you not understanding words again. Russia and China are not allies, they pay lip service to their “friendship” and strategic partnership. Alliances in the traditional sense are military and Russia and China are most definitely not this. This war going on for as long as it has is in Xi’s interest, he wants a weak junior partner Russia who he can get cheap gas from and water. It is never an equal partnership when one side absolutely depends on the other. Xi has Putin right where he wants him.
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No, my comment is not confusing correlation with causation. You never explained this point, you just stated it as though it counters all of the hard evidence I brought supporting how well socialism works and how poorly capitalism has done in its place. Further, I never said prostitution did not exist in the Soviet Union, I said it skyrocketed after socialism was dissolved, which is uncontestably true.
As for Marx and numbers not adding up, he made minor mistakes here and there. Engels and other Marxists have corrected the figures and they do not change the points Marx made, nor do they disprove Marxist economics. That’s like suggesting that if a scientist makes a mistake in calculating gravity, that the law of gravity is wrong.
It’s also telling that, again, you never give examples, and entirely ignore the part where Marx debunked Henry George. You’re incapable of actually countering anything I say, so instead you make a thesis statement and confuse that for an argument itself. You aren’t going to convince any onlookers that way, and you sure as hell aren’t going to convince me, so why even try?
As for Putin being an enemy of the working classes, this is partially true. He is, after all, a nationalist leader and a billionaire. However, nationalist Russia still plays an internationally progressive role in undermining imperialism, which is positive.
Your latter comment is just racism, assuming hordes of Asians are going to conquest Russian land if Russia cannot defend itself from China and India. This was already true a decade ago, and yet no Chinese invasion of Russia seems plausible.
I didn’t explain my point because I do not have the time to go through every single bullshit point you made, that would just be a waste of time. I’ll pick one but this point could be made of every example you gave. You used the increase in life expectancy in the USSR as one reason why communism is superior to capitalism.
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5b8165f4-9e20-47eb-ad04-dc5c88f007c4.png
You fail to mention that life expectancy in the capitalist west increased to even greater figures or explain why USSR life expectancy tailed off in the 50’s only to rise after communism.
Prostitution, which is fine by me, oldest profession in the world and all that, where did all of the demand come from following the collapse of the USSR? Did capitalism corrupt the people’s minds or was the soviet government lying?
No it’s not and you have revealed the fatal flaw all of your crowd exhibits. You view economics as a hard science like physics, where there are universal immutable constants. Economics is a soft science where things are constantly changing depending on multiple factors. Marx did not “discover” the universal secrets of economics in the way Newton or Einstein did. Where in that article you send does Marx debunk George? It just reads like intellectual snobbery by a myopic man unable to see beyond his own work and defending his own views. You sit in an echo chamber of confirmation bias.
Marx’s ideas don’t work or add up, they are from another time, same as George for that matter. Their ideas do not work for modern globalised economies. If they did surely we would have seen the proletariat rise up and seize the mean of production. I am sure this is coming any day now buddy.
WTF? Hilarious statement! RUSSIA IS AN EMPIRE! All of the empires try and undermine each other as they always have. You are displaying the third worldism tankies have adopted since the proletariat never rose up, now relying on rebel groups in developing countries to carry on the revolution.
No invasion necessary here, Putin is so deep in Xi’s pocket at this stage he is playing with his balls! Russia is so overdependent on China and China alone that they are now just a vassal state of China. No matter the outcome of the war this will be true. China will reclaim their lost territories without blood and secure the water their large population requires.
Not a single one of my points was bullshit. Life expectancy increasing in the imperialist west was largely due to said imperialism, plundering the global south of resources and labor power while exporting contradictions and violence. Life expectancy increased in the imperialist west off the backs of the global south, life expectancy increased in socialist countries due to pro-social policies and industrial development.
As for prostitution, it skyrocketed because poverty skyrocketed. Women’s employment was dramatically harmed, and many were forced to sell their bodies or else end up homeless and on the streets. Regardless of your view of sex work, certainly you can see that being forced into it by a lack of social safety nets is akin to socially compelled sex slavery.
As for Marxism being correct, Marx’s major predictions are all coming to pass. The fact that we do not instantly live in global communism does not contradict Marx in any way. Capitalism has continued to centralize, and imperialism has grown, causing revolutions around the world. The imperialist west is now collapsing under its own weight, and socialist countries like China are rapidly rising. Marxism has carried forward into new conditions by Marxists since Marx, such as Lenin, Rodney, Cheng Enfu, and more.
You have not explained how Marx “does not add up.” Georgism was debunked long ago as having an incomplete and insufficient view of political economy, overly focusing on land while ignoring the contradictions within capitalism itself necessarily leading towards a collapse in capitalism. No amount of land value tax can prevent the tendency for the rate of profit to fall.
As for Russia being an “empire,” it is not. It is governed by nationalists and a national bourgeoisie that is largely industrial in character. Russia has a pitiful amount of finance capital, and does not base its economy on capital export but instead commodity export, like oil and natural gas. A country cannot be imperialist if it isn’t imperializing.
As for Russia being a vassal of China, it is not. It is certainly weaker than China, but the two are strong allies. This is certainly unthinkable for a westerner, but it turns out having shared interests and not being dominated by finance capital means countries can genuinely ally.
Now we are back to confusing correlation with causation. Life expectancy increased dramatically across the 20th century as a result of improved sanitation, medical breakthroughs like antibiotics and vaccines and better obstetric care for childbirth. You are also hilariously forgetting that the USSR was an empire with the European states being kept in line often brutally by their Russian overlords. Did Russian imperialism increase Russian life expectancy then? You should at least be intellectually consistent.
And this was the fault of the imperial west how? The USSR collapsed due to its own bad governance.
Wake me up when this happens babe.
Most economists would describe today’s China as hybrid state capitalism. China’s communist days are long behind them, I noticed how even you referred to them as “socialist” which would be a stretch considering the oppressive conditions most live under.
There are plenty of information online debunking Marx’s theories, I do not have time to do what you can search yourself. I also know that you will be like the proverbial horse brought to water. You mentioned earlier that capitalism in the imperial west is now collapsing under its own weight, as Marx predicted. Marx predicted that capitalism contained the seeds of its own destruction, leading to the inevitable collapse of the system, falling rates of profit, and widespread immiseration of the working class. In reality, capitalist economies proved adaptable, driving technological innovation, creating modern welfare systems to regulate markets, and lifting billions out of poverty globally over the last century.
Or more importantly, why has the proletariat not risen up yet? I mean they’ve had almost 2 centuries at this point!
Do you know nothing of Russian history? Read a book dude! How did the Russian state expand over the centuries, magic?
You say this with a straight face when they are invading Ukraine in an imperialist land grab. This is just after Russia stole a slice of Georgia. I don’t think you understand the meaning of words buddy.
Back to you not understanding words again. Russia and China are not allies, they pay lip service to their “friendship” and strategic partnership. Alliances in the traditional sense are military and Russia and China are most definitely not this. This war going on for as long as it has is in Xi’s interest, he wants a weak junior partner Russia who he can get cheap gas from and water. It is never an equal partnership when one side absolutely depends on the other. Xi has Putin right where he wants him.